New Moom Phaedoυ Πθαεδω

 

y4−x4+ay2+bx2=0

You would leave the explanation of these divi ions and additions and all such subtleties to wi er men than yourself. You would be frightened, as the saying i , at your own shadow and ignorance, and would ·hold fa t to the afety of our principle, and so give your answer. But if anyone should attack the principle it elf, you would not mind him or an wer him until you had con idered whether the consequences of it are consi tent or incon i tent, and wnen you 1iad to give an account of the principle it elf, you would give it in the same way, by a uming some other principle which yo u think the strange t of the higher ones, and so go on until you had reached a sati factory re ting place. You would not mix up the fir t principle and its con equences in your argument, a mere di putants do, if you really wish to di cover anything of exi tence. Such persons will very likely not spend a ingle word or thought upon that, for they are clever enough to be able to plea e themselves entirely, though their argumen t is a chaos. But you, I think, if you are a philosopher, will do as I say. 102 Very true, said Simmia and Cebes together . Ech. And they were right, Phaedo. I think the clearness of his reasoning, even to the dulle t, is quite wonderful. Phaedo. Indeed, Echecrate , all who were there thought o too. Ech. So do we who were not there, but who are li tening to your tory. But how did the argument proceed after that? Phaedo. They had admitted that each of t e Ideas exists L and that Phenomena take the names of the Ideas as the artici ate }( in them. aerates, I think, then went on to a k: If you say this, do yo u not, in saying that Simmias is taller than Socrates and shorter than Phaedo, say that Simmias possesses both the attribute of tallne s and the attribute of shortne s? I do. But you admit, he said, that the proposition that immias is taller than aerates is not exactly true, as it is stated; immias is not really taller becau e he is Simmia , but becau e of his height. Nor again is he taller than Socrates becau e aerates is Socrates, but because of ocrate ' shortness compared with Simmias' tallness. 

True. 

or is immias shorter than Phaedo because Phaedo i Phaedo, but becau e of Phaedo's tallness compared with Σιmmias' shortness. That is so. Then in this way Σimmias is called both short and tall, when he i σ between the two;

he exceeds the

 shortness of one

 by the excess of his height,

 and gives the other a 

tallness 

exceeding his own shortnesΣ...

I dare ay you think, he said, smiling, that my language is like a legal document for precision and formality. But I think that it is as I say. 

He σποκεν ασ τηε οτηερ θτηΣγ agreed. 

I say it because I want you to θινψκ as I do

104:..

what is it with me, not above the superfluous, but he sees it after his own name

  and this is what they call it, because they have become so numerous that nothing superfluous is ever left?

but he intends about the triad. But does not this name prove to you, and it is also acceptable to the superfluous, being not beyond the triad? But nevertheless, the third and the fifth and half of the number of apas also fell in this way, so that

[104b] οὐκ ὢν ὅπερ τὸ περιττὸν ἀεὶ ἕκαστος αὐτῶν ἐστι περιττός· καὶ αὖ τὰ δύο καὶ [τὰ] τέτταρα καὶ ἅπας ὁ ἕτερος αὖ στίχος τοῦ ἀριθμοῦ οὐκ ὢν ὅπερ τὸ ἄρτιον ὅμως ἕκαστος αὐτῶν ἄρτιός ἐστιν ἀεί· συγχωρεῖς ἢ οὔ;

 

πῶς γὰρ οὔκ; ἔφη.

[104b] There is no more than the odd number, but each one of them is odd; and therefore the twos and [the] fours, and here the other verse of the number is not more than the even number, but each one of them is even;

are you sorry or not?

οὐκ ὢν ὅπερ τὸ περιττὸν ἀεὶ ἕκαστος αὐτῶν ἐστι περιττός· 

καὶ αὖ τὰ δύο καὶ [τὰ] τέτταρα 

καὶ ἅπας ὁ ἕτερος αὖ στίχος 

τοῦ ἀριθμοῦ οὐκ ὢν ὅπερ τὸ ἄρτιον

 ὅμως ἕκαστος αὐτῶν ἄρτιός 

ἐστιν ἀεί·   συγχωρεῖς ἢ οὔ;

It's not about the unnecessary, but each one of them is unnecessary;

and hence the twos and [the] fours

And here is the other verse

of the number is not even

  but each of them is even

Are you sorry or not?

ἆρα μόνον τῶν ὄντων--τοῦτο γὰρ ἐρωτῶ--ἢ καὶ ἄλλο [104a] τι ὃ ἔστι μὲν οὐχ ὅπερ τὸ περιττόν, ὅμως δὲ δεῖ αὐτὸ μετὰ τοῦ ἑαυτοῦ ὀνόματος καὶ τοῦτο καλεῖν ἀεὶ διὰ τὸ οὕτω πεφυκέναι ὥστε τοῦ περιττοῦ μηδέποτε ἀπολείπεσθαι; λέγω δὲ αὐτὸ εἶναι οἷον καὶ ἡ τριὰς πέπονθε καὶ ἄλλα πολλά. σκόπει δὲ περὶ τῆς τριάδος. ἆρα οὐ δοκεῖ σοι τῷ τε αὑτῆς ὀνόματι ἀεὶ προσαγορευτέα εἶναι καὶ τῷ τοῦ περιττοῦ, ὄντος οὐχ ὅπερ τῆς τριάδος; ἀλλ᾽ ὅμως οὕτως πέφυκε καὶ ἡ τριὰς καὶ ἡ πεμπτὰς καὶ ὁ ἥμισυς τοῦ ἀριθμοῦ ἅπας, ὥστε 

[104b] οὐκ ὢν ὅπερ τὸ περιττὸν ἀεὶ ἕκαστος αὐτῶν ἐστι περιττός· καὶ αὖ τὰ δύο καὶ [τὰ] τέτταρα καὶ ἅπας ὁ ἕτερος αὖ στίχος τοῦ ἀριθμοῦ οὐκ ὢν ὅπερ τὸ ἄρτιον ὅμως ἕκαστος αὐτῶν ἄρτιός ἐστιν ἀεί· συγχωρεῖς ἢ οὔ;

 

πῶς γὰρ οὔκ; ἔφη.

Then, it is true of some of these things that not only the idea itself has a right to its name for all time, but that something else too which is not the idea, but which has the form of the idea wh~rever it exists, shares the name. Perhaps my meaning will be clearer by an example. The odd ought always to have the name of odd, ought it not? 

 If you ask me, what is that which must be in the body to make it hot, I shall not give our old safe and stupid answer, and say that it is heat; I shall make a more refined answer, drawn from what we have been saying, and reply, fire. If you a k me, what is that which must be in the body to make it sick, I shall not say sickness, but fever; and again to .the question what is that which must be in number to make it odd, I shall not reply oddness, but unity, and so on. Do you understand my meaning clearly yet?

 

Factor any number into prime factors 2, 3, and the other prime factors all of which are additive sums of multiples of 2 and 3 and 1 

Yes, Socrates, and very sufficiently. (.; 

Well, Cebes, he said, if the odd had been necessarily imperishable,

 must not three have been imperishable? 

106 Of course. 

And if cold had been necessarily imperishable,

 snow would have retired safe and unmelted, 

whenever warmth was applied to it.

 lt would not have perished,

 and it would not have stayed and admitted the heat.

 True, he said. 

In the same way, I suppose, if warmth were imperishable,

 whenever cold attacked fire,

 the fire would never have been extinguished or have perished.

 It would have gone away in safety. 

Necessarily, he replied.

 

[114a] ὑπ᾽ ὀργῆς βίαιόν τι πράξαντες, καὶ μεταμέλον αὐτοῖς τὸν ἄλλον βίον βιῶσιν, ἢ ἀνδροφόνοι τοιούτῳ τινὶ ἄλλῳ τρόπῳ γένωνται, τούτους δὲ ἐμπεσεῖν μὲν εἰς τὸν Τάρταρον ἀνάγκη, ἐμπεσόντας δὲ αὐτοὺς καὶ ἐνιαυτὸν ἐκεῖ γενομένους ἐκβάλλει τὸ κῦμα, τοὺς μὲν ἀνδροφόνους κατὰ τὸν Κωκυτόν, τοὺς δὲ πατραλοίας καὶ μητραλοίας κατὰ τὸν Πυριφλεγέθοντα· ἐπειδὰν δὲ φερόμενοι γένωνται κατὰ τὴν λίμνην τὴν Ἀχερουσιάδα, ἐνταῦθα βοῶσί τε καὶ καλοῦσιν, οἱ μὲν οὓς ἀπέκτειναν, οἱ δὲ οὓς ὕβρισαν, καλέσαντες δ᾽ ἱκετεύουσι [114b] καὶ δέονται ἐᾶσαι σφᾶς ἐκβῆναι εἰς τὴν λίμνην καὶ δέξασθαι, καὶ ἐὰν μὲν πείσωσιν, ἐκβαίνουσί τε καὶ λήγουσι τῶν κακῶν, εἰ δὲ μή, φέρονται αὖθις εἰς τὸν Τάρταρον καὶ ἐκεῖθεν πάλιν εἰς τοὺς ποταμούς, καὶ ταῦτα πάσχοντες οὐ πρότερον παύονται πρὶν ἂν πείσωσιν οὓς ἠδίκησαν· αὕτη γὰρ ἡ δίκη ὑπὸ τῶν δικαστῶν αὐτοῖς ἐτάχθη. οἳ δὲ δὴ ἂν δόξωσι διαφερόντως πρὸς τὸ ὁσίως βιῶναι, οὗτοί εἰσιν οἱ τῶνδε μὲν τῶν τόπων τῶν ἐν τῇ γῇ ἐλευθερούμενοί τε καὶ ἀπαλλαττόμενοι [114c] ὥσπερ δεσμωτηρίων, ἄνω δὲ εἰς τὴν καθαρὰν οἴκησιν ἀφικνούμενοι καὶ ἐπὶ γῆς οἰκιζόμενοι. τούτων δὲ αὐτῶν οἱ φιλοσοφίᾳ ἱκανῶς καθηράμενοι ἄνευ τε σωμάτων ζῶσι τὸ παράπαν εἰς τὸν ἔπειτα χρόνον, καὶ εἰς οἰκήσεις ἔτι τούτων καλλίους ἀφικνοῦνται, ἃς οὔτε ῥᾴδιον δηλῶσαι οὔτε ὁ χρόνος ἱκανὸς ἐν τῷ παρόντι. ἀλλὰ τούτων δὴ ἕνεκα χρὴ ὧν διεληλύθαμεν, ὦ Σιμμία, πᾶν ποιεῖν ὥστε ἀρετῆς καὶ φρονήσεως ἐν τῷ βίῳ μετασχεῖν· καλὸν γὰρ τὸ ἆθλον καὶ ἡ ἐλπὶς μεγάλη.

 

[114d] τὸ μὲν οὖν ταῦτα διισχυρίσασθαι οὕτως ἔχειν ὡς ἐγὼ διελήλυθα, οὐ πρέπει νοῦν ἔχοντι ἀνδρί· ὅτι μέντοι ἢ ταῦτ᾽ ἐστὶν ἢ τοιαῦτ᾽ ἄττα περὶ τὰς ψυχὰς ἡμῶν καὶ τὰς οἰκήσεις, ἐπείπερ ἀθάνατόν γε ἡ ψυχὴ φαίνεται οὖσα, τοῦτο καὶ πρέπειν μοι δοκεῖ καὶ ἄξιον κινδυνεῦσαι οἰομένῳ οὕτως ἔχειν--καλὸς γὰρ ὁ κίνδυνος--καὶ χρὴ τὰ τοιαῦτα ὥσπερ ἐπᾴδειν ἑαυτῷ, διὸ δὴ ἔγωγε καὶ πάλαι μηκύνω τὸν μῦθον. ἀλλὰ τούτων δὴ ἕνεκα θαρρεῖν χρὴ περὶ τῇ ἑαυτοῦ ψυχῇ [114e] ἄνδρα ὅστις ἐν τῷ βίῳ τὰς μὲν ἄλλας ἡδονὰς τὰς περὶ τὸ σῶμα καὶ τοὺς κόσμους εἴασε χαίρειν, ὡς ἀλλοτρίους τε ὄντας, καὶ πλέον θάτερον ἡγησάμενος ἀπεργάζεσθαι, τὰς δὲ περὶ τὸ μανθάνειν ἐσπούδασέ τε καὶ κοσμήσας τὴν ψυχὴν οὐκ ἀλλοτρίῳ ἀλλὰ τῷ αὐτῆς κόσμῳ, σωφροσύνῃ τε καὶ [115a] δικαιοσύνῃ καὶ ἀνδρείᾳ καὶ ἐλευθερίᾳ καὶ ἀληθείᾳ, οὕτω περιμένει τὴν εἰς Ἅιδου πορείαν [ὡς πορευσόμενος ὅταν ἡ εἱμαρμένη καλῇ]. ὑμεῖς μὲν οὖν, ἔφη, ὦ Σιμμία τε καὶ Κέβης καὶ οἱ ἄλλοι, εἰς αὖθις ἔν τινι χρόνῳ ἕκαστοι πορεύσεσθε· ἐμὲ δὲ νῦν ἤδη καλεῖ, φαίη ἂν ἀνὴρ τραγικός, ἡ εἱμαρμένη, καὶ σχεδόν τί μοι ὥρα τραπέσθαι πρὸς τὸ λουτρόν· δοκεῖ γὰρ δὴ βέλτιον εἶναι λουσάμενον πιεῖν τὸ φάρμακον καὶ μὴ πράγματα ταῖς γυναιξὶ παρέχειν νεκρὸν λούειν.